Which is what the OP posted and referred to. Try to keep up. This is a conversation. You need to follow the conversation which drifted off to include Winchester 73s not just the Navy Arms version. Most threads by the time there are two or three posts have drifted from what an OP asked or posted. I talked to the project manager at Winchester (not Navy) and they do not consider the production guns short stroked. They are building all they can sell and a short stroke is something they might offer in the future.

The after market has already started making short strokes for them. What do you mean no more excuses, as the Major explained the Miroku IS short stroked, their adds even say so. No, the Winchesters are not short stroked, the Navy Arms rifles are. Now, the only one I handled and from what everyone else is saying, they are extremely well made so out of the box require less tuning possibly which has led to all kinds of mythology about them coming short stroked and tuned, etc. I think they are simply built to tighter engineering controls in Japan than in Italy.

Or that is to say, all the carping about 1000+ dollar guns that then need work is less of an issue here. I am sure they are not all perfect, but I am betting they are built to a higher standard internally than are the Ubertis. I am also betting that comparing one original or one uberti to a new Winchester is likely not a valid statistical sampling. The problem is that everyone is using the Uberti as the gold standard.

A little more information for those that are interested. Miroku has two plants. One is very small and has limited production facilities. This is where they make all the Winchester 'traditional' style rifles, e.g., the 73, 85, 86, 92 and 95s. Total production at the plant is 6,000 guns per year for ALL models combined. So, they aren't exactly pumping out a lot of any particular model. If you see what you like you should probably pick it up as it might not come back around in the production cycle for a while.

They are nicely made and finished. There are two things I don't like. First, the stock carrier is cut to try and make the shells eject to the right. This just makes it a little less positive for ejection.

Good Morning, I am new to this forum, with very little knowledge about collectible firearms. Recently I was gifted a very nice brass Henry 1860 44/40 replica made in the Navy Arms, Ridgefield, New Jersey facility. The serial number on the tang seems to indicate it's from 1979, however there is another.

Second, it has a safety built into the firing pin extension and an interlock to keep it from firing unless the trigger is pulled. There are already after market solid firing pin extensions. We have to remember the majority of these rifles are sold to people that aren't going to shoot them is CAS events, so they won't mind these two features. No, the Winchesters are not short stroked, the Navy Arms rifles are.

Now, the only one I handled and from what everyone else is saying, they are extremely well made so out of the box require less tuning possibly which has led to all kinds of mythology about them coming short stroked and tuned, etc. I think they are simply built to tighter engineering controls in Japan than in Italy. Or that is to say, all the carping about 1000+ dollar guns that then need work is less of an issue here.

I am sure they are not all perfect, but I am betting they are built to a higher standard internally than are the Ubertis. I am also betting that comparing one original or one uberti to a new Winchester is likely not a valid statistical sampling. The problem is that everyone is using the Uberti as the gold standard. If you look at the pictures Major 2 posted you will see that the Miroku rifle IS designed with a short lever throw compared to the original Winchester 73 rifles. This has been a topic of discussion since the rifle was introduced. The lever throw on the Miroku is closer to the earlier aftermarket short strokes than it is to an original Winchester. The Uberti is being used as the standard because it IS regarding the lever throw and most handling aspects as close to the original 1873 Winchester as can be gotten without shooting an original.

Billy, here are the pics. It is a 24 inch half round barrel, upgraded wood and checkering, 44WCF, Cimarron US finish bone and charcoal case hardening done by Classic Guns. It is custom serial numbered CLIFF3 to match my two Cimarron model P revolvers which were ordered with the same finish and caliber. I kind of wish I had ordered without the checkering because the wood is so nice the checkering almost takes away from the beauty of the wood. Especially on the forearm.

Cliff very nice rifle, thanks for sharing the pictures Logged. Essentially, both sides of what is being written here is correct. Miroku does not mention Short stroke, cause that is their OEM design, I call it enhanced Navy Arms is offering the a same action, but does point out the enhancement as Short Stroked 'Same' stroke different folks The OEM Miroku is fine rifle and built with the stroke perhaps Original Winchester shoulda/ coulda had. I'm quite sure, folks are working on Shorter Stroke's for the Miroku just as the 1st-5th.

Were done for the Uberti's. Uberti is the Gold Standard.

Many thousands are out there and in use and are considered the gun of choice for WAS. Nothing wrong with tuned a gun or having to get one tuned both of reliability & speed. Remember, (insert automobile or Bike of choice here) runs better and more beneficently tuned up Personally.

I'm please to see Miroku/Winchester join Uberti and produce 73's just as I'm please HRA saw fit to bring the H011 Original 1860 Henry to reality. Shows interest in a market place, ' Old west design seeing the light of day again ' I'm for the more the merrier, HRA making a 66 Miroku adding a 76 Lets not make the Ford vs Chevy arrangements, rather bask in what else they might do. As for NCOWS we have maybe 800 great 'like minded' members, maybe 250 active shooters? SASS lists 100,000 members maybe 10,000-12,000 partially or fully active. If you were designing a rifle to attract /suit John Q.

Public & at the same time the active SASS folks. Who would you want to reach? Relax enjoy Logged. Cliff, I will make you a deal. You order another rifle from Cimarron without the checkering and I will buy this one from you:-) I know the guys at Classic Guns. They are great people and now you are making me want to take a road trip to see them again. They worked on several rifles for me over the years.

I really like the 1/2 round barrel you have there. I think I will have to contact Cimarron and see if they will get an order started for me. (unless you are going to sell) Jacob Jacob, Not going to sell, took a year to get it and the serial number is CLIFF3 to match my two custom revolvers CLIFF 1 and 2. Sorry but your going to have to make that call Bryan Buck with 3B shooting supply (Oklahoma Tom on this board) is the go to person for Cimarron custom orders, if it can be done he'll get er done. He knows everyone in the business and I'm thinking he actually talked to someone at Uberti about the half round barrel to get it done for me. Essentially, both sides of what is being written here is correct. Miroku does not mention Short stroke, cause that is their OEM design, I call it enhanced Navy Arms is offering the a same action, but does point out the enhancement as Short Stroked 'Same' stroke different folks The OEM Miroku is fine rifle and built with the stroke perhaps Original Winchester shoulda/ coulda had.

I'm quite sure, folks are working on Shorter Stroke's for the Miroku just as the 1st-5th. Were done for the Uberti's. Uberti is the Gold Standard. Many thousands are out there and in use and are considered the gun of choice for WAS. Nothing wrong with tuned a gun or having to get one tuned both of reliability & speed. Remember, (insert automobile or Bike of choice here) runs better and more beneficently tuned up Personally. I'm please to see Miroku/Winchester join Uberti and produce 73's just as I'm please HRA saw fit to bring the H011 Original 1860 Henry to reality.

Shows interest in a market place, ' Old west design seeing the light of day again ' I'm for the more the merrier, HRA making a 66 Miroku adding a 76 Lets not make the Ford vs Chevy arrangements, rather bask in what else they might do. As for NCOWS we have maybe 800 great 'like minded' members, maybe 250 active shooters? SASS lists 100,000 members maybe 10,000-12,000 partially or fully active. If you were designing a rifle to attract /suit John Q.

Public & at the same time the active SASS folks. Who would you want to reach? Relax enjoy I'm certainly for HRA making a 66. I'd be the first in line for that one. Cliff Actually, you would not as I'm already camped out in that line. If the my H011 is any indication of the 66 I might get.

I'm sure we will not be lonely. I don't know if you got a chance to see the H011 in Springfield ( NCOWS Conv.) I had it there, along with the review in the Shootist.

I don't seen to remember seeing you Sorry for the 'OFF track' back to the Miroku Truth is I've only held one, A Blued SRC 38/357 and rather early one I suppose, as this was back in Jan. It had a noticeably less throw. I say 'noticeably'. However, in all fairness, as the then NCOWS Judge, I could/would not make a recommendation to NCOWS. Harley Davidson Radio Repair Manual.

Based on the one and only example handled. I'm aware that the Factory is not say'n' it's Short Stroked or advertising same. The current NCOWS Judge & Committee are awaiting an example to review. That factory installed short stroke makes it a no go for me besides the fact of it not being available in an authentic caliber. Besides my last custom Cimarron was similar to that with more options and a little less money and more authentic. Hey Cliff, nice rifle you got there.

Since you mentioned price, and the year wait, what did you pay for yours? New Winchester aint going to be legal in NCOWS I heard. Mighty blow to some beautiful guns (not all of them are beautiful mind you) for a gun that has a the Winchester name on it and none new since the 1920s. I have yet to get mine but bought it specifically for the Winchester name. Knowing what the last generation of Brownings were. I need to see more info on what was actually changed in the newest '73. 'New Winchester aint going to be legal in NCOWS I heard.'

I have no doubt you might have heard that. But the real crust is it has not been reviewed by the (current) Judge & Authenticity Comm. It is not disapproved, by name It is by gender approved. Tally Book states: Winchester model 1860, 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, and 1892 manufactured by Armi san Marco, Uberti & others Clearly, Miroku (Winchester), Chaparral, Rossi, Armi Sport and HRA's H011 1860 Henry are OTHERS and approved. And by name disapproved Beretta Renegade (an 1873 w/factory installed short stroke) What would hinder it's Miroku/Navy Arms approval would be getting any Short Stroke past 'Whats not allowed ' Short stroke kits for toggle link rifles.

That is a question for the Committee, the Judge and their recommendation(s) to Congress.where in they (Congress) have the duty to approve or disapprove. A year ago, (as Judge) I reported my observation on only one example a Miroku (Winchester) carbine in 38/357. To date that is the only one I handled. I wrote in the Judge's Chamber, of that observation and suggested 'if' one was to buy one for NCOWS shooting specifically, one might use caution based on the Shorter Stroke action. The Beretta Renegade is dis-approved by name, and made by Uberti with a factory short stroke. Miroku (Winchester) may or may not have the same factory links as the Miroku Navy Arms, but the Navy Arms have by NA advertising a factory short stroke, however neither have been evaluated/reviewed to my knowledge for NCOWS Approval.

I'm probly in the minority here, but personally I don't think ANY short stroke system should be allowed in any cowboy games. I figger they didn't have them back then, shouldn't have them now. But that's just me. While I agree with that sentiment on the surface, knowing the reality is a whole different. Can of worms don't quite cover it. If one's intent were to eliminate 'everything' that is 'an advantage to the shooter' that they didn't have pre 1899.it is a continual and really long list.

And many, if not most, of the current generation of reproductions would be on that list. I have several sets of original '73 links.

I'll try them in my new Winchester when it shows up. And pretty sure I'll be replacing the bolt with original parts or something similar to put that back to the original OEM design.

Not much for change on the 'liability issues' myself.